Transcript
So, hi, Matina. It’s us again, and it’s Friday. And hopefully, that music is not going to put everybody to sleep, but rather just relax them and make them open to what we want to discuss. Hi, Annie. Yes. Happy Friday. Happy Friday indeed. So, you and I are going to talk today about the art of giving and receiving advice. Do the stars need to align for that to actually work and I think we’ve had an interesting experience recently working together where we. Yeah, how would you describe it?
Yeah, it was an interesting case that led to some critical, um, humble self-reflection. Um, we, we had um a fascinating project we were working on and um it was a case where from the very beginning, both of us, we were saying that uh the challenge is so obvious and the recommendations or the impactful solutions for this challenge. They’re pretty clear. Um, it was very obvious to us, but then, um, we thought it was solid process, solid advice, but for some reason it didn’t land. We faced sort of passive resistance even, um.
Everyone nodding to recommendations and then quietly doing nothing. Exactly. Exactly. And I think what was interesting was we started going, we were quite, as you say, humbly reflecting, saying, what did we do? What didn’t we do? What should we have done? What could we have done? But actually, that led us to flip the conversation and think about, well, how does one actually Give and receive good advice, right? And we said, maybe why don’t we share an example, each of us, example or two of where we actually either received or, yeah, maybe experienced giving advice. Sure.
You wanna go first? Yeah, uh, yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, let me go first and and then we can do you, but I think mine was and I’ve spoken to this, this topic about this topic with you very often, which is Um, life is difficult. Relationships, um, commercial and otherwise. And I think that the best advice I received many years ago was, when you’re in a really heated discussion or challenging situation, don’t make the other person’s issues your issue. So really decide, OK, what’s happening here?
What am I reacting to? What are my issues? What are their issues? And, um, you know, like you said, when we were preparing, um, don’t take their issues and make them your issues. But, and Fred is sitting next to me, I think my cat, probably everybody heard now now. But what’s really important is to, your, your emotions are still yours, and you have a choice what you do with them then. But if you just muddle everything up, make their issues your issues, emotions come in between more often than not, there are not positive outcomes.
Yeah, absolutely. And that’s a good piece of advice. We are architects of our own emotions and And then we are in the power to decide which path we take them and it’s the same with, with uh giving or receiving advice. Um, I can remember actually a case where you gave me advice and um both, um, you know, it was impactful um but there was also um an interesting sort of moment where um I My interpretation of that advice was different than what you probably planned to say to me.
So this was uh during the time when I was planning to start my own business in leadership and communications uh consulting, and I had a chat with you. And uh the first um piece of advice that you gave to me was that Um, my and I listen, there are many ways to work today. So there are many ways for you to practise your profession, and I was, uh, ready to receive it, so I, uh, found it very encouraging the emotion that it triggered to. Um, with me was that, oh yeah, that’s so true.
Um, I don’t need to stay in the corporate world or um do 8 to 4 or 9 to 6, my office hours, but I can actually design my own workday. And the second piece of advice that you gave was that um listen Maina, the step that you are planning to take is a big one. So. Be intentional about it. And that freaked me out. That sort of stopped me for a moment and um Um, and I don’t know if you, what was your intention, but my interpretation was that, oh shit, this is so huge.
What, what I’m gonna do next year. So, so that’s probably not what you needed to do. But at the end, it just made me make considered intentional decisions without things. So at the end it was impactful too. Yeah, and I think I, I do remember those conversations like yesterday, right? But, um, well, I’m glad they, I’m glad they were helpful. And I think maybe what we can both reflect on is, in the coming, in the, in the, actually receiving of the advice, right? I probably didn’t want to hear the advice, but I was open.
Because it was a difficult situation, but I was open because I needed a, a, a solution, and I didn’t know where to turn. So I think if we have to unpack for the receiver of the advice, and this sounds like motherhood and apple pie, right? There is that notion of openness and receptiveness, but don’t you think it’s also about timing? Uh, yes, I, I do believe so. So it’s about, you need to be perceptive. You need, it needs to fit, so whoever gives you the um advice needs to know your context, um, it needs to meet you there where you are at, um, and, um, well, in change management, you talk about change readiness, um, that’s For sure, about timing and, and understanding that, OK, uh, what is that person or that um team or organisation going through at the moment, uh, where are they emotionally when it comes to, to the change and will they be then perceptive and, and open?
But that’s, yeah, go ahead. No, no, sorry, you go, because I was thinking there’s also something with regard to trust. Yes, and uh I do think one needs a relationship, right? When it comes to giving and receiving a certain kind of advice, put it that way, because I don’t think all advice is the same. Absolutely. Um, when we did our, um, critical self-reflection, the question that I asked myself, self-reflection. Yes. The question I asked myself that if I were the CEO, why would I pay someone like me?
That’s a relationship. It’s a client adviser relationship and, and, uh, you know, I have that the responsibility in my advisory role that well whatever I may do, um, this investment needs to feel worthwhile and add value, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so, so actually, what you’re talking about there is also ego. I think, uh, the, the person receiving the advice there’s an element of put your ego aside. But actually, the person giving the advice, I mean, you, you just have to let go as well, right? You can’t be there to convince or have your own ego in there.
Yeah, absolutely. And, and what I learned from our case, um, what we described just at the beginning of, of this podcast was that Um, you really need to start with curiosity that, uh, even though something looks very obvious, it doesn’t mean that it’s easy, and, uh, it also doesn’t mean that even though we come in as an expert and have that external lens, we don’t have the answers, uh, all of the answers we can provide our perspective, but um. a very impactful solution, a solution needs to be created in that relationship, in collaboration, in co-creation.
Yeah, but I think what you’re saying there is something interesting, because if we use, and I didn’t look it up, right, the word advice, it’s almost like I’m telling you, or I’m sharing with you. That’s the popular understanding. I’m advising, I’m guiding you. But I think you’re picking up on something really important. I think for impactful advice to work, it needs to be co-creation. It’s almost like the advisor plants a seed. It’s like tennis, you know, or something like that. You plant the seed, you have a discussion.
It’s not a one-way broadcast. No, no, it’s a It’s not a one-way broadcast. It’s probably not a game, but it’s for sure is dynamics, yes, dynamics. It’s relational, uh. Yeah, it’s partnership. Yeah. And tell me, I mean, I think one of the things before we come to a wrap up and, OK, so what is this taught us from our critical, humble critical self-reflection, um, I, I think what we’re saying is probably to listeners won’t sound that new. And therefore, we’re also in preparation, reflected on, yeah, OK, so it doesn’t sound new, but why does, why is it then so hard to either receive advice and act upon it, or to be the giver of good advice?
And I think we, we reflected on a few topics there that sometimes stand in the way, right? Yeah, and um we did mention that, OK, as an advisor but also as a receiver of advice, you need to put your ego on the side, um you need to let go, both parties need to let go about assumptions. And uh perhaps having the ready-made solution in in mind but but really be open to to uh create that, that in dialogue. One, other factor for sure is um laziness or being confident.
We have, it’s so much easier to let things be as they are. Yeah, or to think that the advisor solves the problem. Because I think in what we described earlier, the stance, not the, the game, it’s, it’s hard work. If you really want to receive good advice, you have to be so open, act upon. You can’t be lazy. It’s not just about sitting there passively. The advice goes into your head and your problems are solved, because you still need to act on it, right? Absolutely. And if you then that that’s the key.
It’s about action and movement. Um, and, um, you know, I, I try to be, um, kind to my clients and, and my, my partners, and, uh, I normally say that, you know, I can, I can offer you an external perspective, uh, I can help you gain clarity, we can develop a plan, a strategy together, um, but at the end, um, to change or um to yourself or to make others to believe or um. Change behaviour or change some practises, that’s not in my power or in your power.
It’s, it’s always the individual decides itself. That’s true, but, um, I don’t think that advice is impactful if it doesn’t create action and movement. Oh, I agree, I agree. I agree. And, and I think therefore, in conclusion, what do you think is our overarching Conclusion. Art, is it an art or a science? Do the stars need to align? Probably, yes, a little bit of all of that. And I think what we mean with the stars needing to align is to reading what the, the, I guess you, the timing needs to be right for the person receiving the advice, and the adviser needs to meet the person receiving the advice at the point where they’re at.
Which, you know, I don’t know if that that makes sense, absolutely, and, and I think it comes down to willingness to change and how do you gain willingness in a in a relationship and someone to say yes to a proposal or be open to saying yes yourself, it’s relational. So it comes down to, um, building and maintaining uh those, those partnership relationships. Well, Maine, I’m happy we had some time to reflect, um and uh yeah, I mean. I guess we, we give ourselves some advice based on this.
Um, we can, we can listen to it and then take the advice we’re trying to share. I mean, I trust you, so I’m willing to trust you. Oh. Well, thank you very much for that. Another interesting topic that we discussed. And, um, yeah, as always, I’m, I’m, I think we’re both curious to hear if anybody has an opinion on that. Absolutely. Right. Have a lovely weekend. Bye, bye.
