Transcript
Good afternoon, everyone. Today, I’m joined by Nicole and Neil Gen. And we are, I think, at a really interesting juncture with the world being so crazy, going to talk a little bit about an interesting concept and retreat that they’re developing. But before we do that, why don’t I ask them to introduce themselves to us. So, uh, Nicole, why don’t you start and then over to you, Nilin. Yes, thank you very much, Annami, and it’s very nice that you’re having us in your podcast. Uh, my name is Nicole Herbert, and I’ve been working actually as a consultant for 24 years already, and, uh, mostly in the area of leadership, leadership development, culture transformation and change.
Um, worked for many large companies, with many big corporates, and as of last year, I started to work as an independent consultant, so I made a big step. Thank you. And I think we met each other a couple of years ago in the energy world, right? So we were both in Germany, right? Yeah, yeah. So, over to you. Yes, very nice to meet you, Amy. Hagenberg, um, I have 25 years of experience as in-house practitioner and as a consultant in the space of human resources, talent management, executive search, leadership development.
So the common thread has always been about the leadership. Great, yeah, and I think that’s something all of us have in common. And, um, how did you two meet each other? Well, we met actually, uh, I started working a few years ago at Corn Ferry, uh, and, uh, Nilgan was part of the selection committee, uh, and because of her, I started to work there. She hired me. It was one of our best hires, and now I’m also working as an independent consultant, uh, and now we are partnering and we are very excited to do some very interesting programmes together.
So speaking of that, tell me a little bit because Nicole, you hinted at me that you were, you two were thinking about a retreat. What is that all about? Who are you aiming at that? Tell me more about it. Well, well, our original idea was we, we, we always worked in leadership development and a lot of times you see leaders going into a programme, um, but it doesn’t really stick. And we thought like, hey, we can do this in a different way. So we came up with a retreat called pause to accelerate, uh, and we create a sort of based on our own experiences, um, a different setup, and, uh, maybe Milgan, you can elaborate a little bit more.
Yeah, yeah, uh, so we have seen many leaders at different, um, stages of their career throughout our own experience. And the key uh challenge they have is when they transition, when they transition from one role to the other, from one level to the next or from one company to another company, that transition is not easy. They have to look to things differently, they have to change their mindset at times, they have to gain new perspectives, new experiences. And that, that has to be managed. And uh what we have seen is that that really requires a pause.
So you cannot just keep going, you cannot just do things exactly the same way. You need to pause, but pause not for the sake of pause, pause to accelerate. So that’s the whole idea uh we are uh working on, and you mentioned it’s a retreat because that’s the main part of our um uh programme. Uh, however, it’s more than a retreat. We can, we can call it a leadership programme for a senior executive. We call it immersive, uh, coaching experience because there are different parts to our programme.
In short, uh, there is a, uh, let’s say a preparation phase with uh quite deep self-reflection and Psalm 360. And then there is a 5 day retreat and we can tell a little bit more about that. And then after that there is ongoing coaching, and that is for 90 days and it’s unlimited because what we want to secure is that whatever the leader decides to do is, is really happening. So the transformation is really happening. The change is really happening, the growth is really happening with the leader. So I love this notion of, I, I think it’s part of a pause.
Um, it’s almost as if you, you have to go slow before you go fast. You have to stop before you can go even faster. And I think in our world today, that, that doesn’t, I mean, it doesn’t come natural to us. We think we just have to keep going and going and going, right? So if sorry. No, no, you go, you go. I was gonna say for me personally, it also. Like that. Uh, I felt like I’ve been working like a hamster in a wheel for, for the past, uh, past years without ever stopping and wondering, am I still on the right track?
Uh, what am I doing? Am I, is this what I want to do for the next 20 working years in my life? Will this make me happy? All these reflective questions, um, you, you don’t take the time to sit down and, and wonder, um, Yeah. And don’t you think sometimes it’s that one, we don’t take the time, but then maybe there’s also an element that we don’t want to take the time, because we might not get the answer or like the answer that we discover for ourselves, right?
Yeah, I think that’s absolutely true. I mean, for me, for me, that was for sure the case as well. Uh, I didn’t want to acknowledge. I mean, it has it could have big consequences, right? Uh, both both on your working life. Yeah, and I guess to pause, you also need to be brave, right? I think it requires an element of bravery, self-knowledge, self-exploration. So, you mentioned, Nilgan, the 5 days, your retreat is 5 days. Do you two want to tell me a little bit more about that? Some of the elements?
You mentioned it, uh, like a preparatory phase, a 43, and so on. But what, what is at the core of these 5 days? So let’s talk about the construct because obviously there is a whole design behind the approach and we can give them some examples of how we bring it to life. So there are uh the the programme is based on three elements, uh, so these three elements of our self-awareness, purpose, and energy management. And that’s very, very, uh, you know, intentional. So self-awareness is during the post, you really need to go deep about who you are, uh, you know, how you come across, how you interact with others, what you really like doing, what you, uh, want to learn more, and, and, and how is your impact?
How are you living your life and creating an impact? Um, the second part is, um, uh, uh, purpose, and this is your north star. So what is your life purpose? How do you realise yourself? Uh, what keeps you on the right track? What gives you the intention? How do you create that intentionality? And the third one is energy management. So how do you keep going? Where do you get your energy from? And that can be small things in daily life or it can be big strategic decisions as well.
So these three elements are very, very carefully interwoven into the design of the programme. And, and we can give you some examples. Yeah, and at the same time, the programme is a mix for for people to, on one end, it’s, it’s getting you out of your comfort zone and, and it’s trying to stretch you. And on the other hand, it’s also based on well researched, uh, uh, theories. We try to, to also balance that very much. And, and if you’re looking at the programme, for instance, on what’s your purpose?
I mean, that’s kind of a big question, right? Yeah, so we, we will ask nature also for support. So participants in the programme will have a 24 hour solo nature quest where they spend time alone with nature to try to figure out uh what it is that they want to go in life. But then we also have parts, for instance, on, on, on storytelling. So, um, we, we’re mastering storytelling. We, if we look at our brain and our private voice, um we can come up with a complete dysfunctional story.
Uh, like, for instance, I want to be this, but, and then I come up with whatever is, is holding me and is limiting me. So we really work on your dysfunctional story, but at the same time, we try to create um a new story. Yeah, why is it important for you, and that’s also the motivation afterwards to hang in there. So it has elements like that as well. And, and, um, yeah, and the energy management, we work on the 4 levels all the time. So it’s physical, emotional, mentally and spiritually.
Um, and, and we do want to have the physical part in that. For instance, on day 4, we’ve done a lot of hard work on day 3, on the mental and on the emotional side. So on day 4, it’s also about letting go. It’s about balancing. So it could be. That we do a big hike in the morning to, to get really work on the physical part, but also go to a ham or go to a spa to to relax and think things through also and take a pause in the moment.
And two questions. Uh, I, I think often, I think we’ve seen, and that’s why I like that there’s a before and an after for this journey. I, you know, we can all get very fired up and engaged and have the, the retreat and decide to change our lives, but then the real world hits. I guess that’s my, my first question around, so how do you, how do you equip people not to, because it’s easier sometimes. It’s easy when you’re away in a, you know, that safe environment to be brave, but it’s much harder to be brave once you’ve returned.
Yes, yes. So absolutely, Enemy, um, two things I would say. One is during the programme, the last day is uh very much about, uh, planning, action planning and commitment, and we bring it to real life. So we talk about real events they will face going back. And we make it very personal. We make it very, uh, intentional, and we talk about how that can be uh with the new story. The new story they will live, how they will show up in that meeting, how, how will they have that conversation?
How will they approach that specific business challenge. We bring it back to business, we bring it back to real life. And then the, what is very unique about our programme is, uh, once the, the retreat is over, we have weekly touch base scheduled in the agendas for 90 days. So that is, uh, you know, time secured for us to touch base and ask real questions about real events, about real change that they are implementing. Uh, in between, they, uh, what we do also, uh, is, um, incidents coaching.
So if they need to prepare for a specific situation before and after we touch base, uh, or if something happened and they want to call and they want to talk or they want to message, so that we do. As well. So we don’t let go. Uh, retreat gives the feeling of, you know, having a little bit of a holiday, uh, which is not the case in this one. It’s, it’s very intentional. It’s very deep, uh, and, uh, uh, we really stay with the participants and, uh, secure.
The change is happening and we, and we also use habits. So, uh, in order to make behavioural change, you want to do something for 90 days in a row and then you create a new ritual, right? So we’re really working on, on trying to create new habits there as well. So why now? I mean, why this programme, why now? I guess is my question. Yeah, I mean, um, so one of the big topics in the whole leadership arena is resilience. Um, it is, it is there and it will stay because we have so much happening around us, the, the, the amount of information, uh, the amount of expectations on leaders is continuously increasing, and each individual, each leader really has to manage it themselves because, you know, uh, if you don’t uh regulate, uh things can take over.
Um. Also, individuals, we see that they, they take decisions based a lot on expectations on them and we really need to go back to the, the, the core of it. Uh, so we combined these, um, you know, observations, uh, I mean, in my 30 years of experience, I have seen so many leaders. And, you know, realising their potential, but some of them, uh, really struggling as well. So it’s for us, it’s, it’s uh it’s giving back in a way from all our experiences, and now it’s more relevant than ever.
Right, and I think if, and you both will be facilitating the journey, you both have a lot of experience. I’m curious about This lovely combination of bringing the, the four elements, physical, mental, um, spirit, etc. into it. Why is so important to you? Yeah, for, for, if you’re looking at, uh, at it as a pyramid, physical is actually like the foundation. So it’s the fuel that you have in, in your body. And a lot of time people don’t take care enough of the physical, and physical is eating, sleeping, and moving.
Uh, that means they don’t have sufficient fuel to perform or to meet whatever they want to. So having a, a, a big tank of fuel is quite essential in order to do anything. And, um, and for me, the, the spiritual part is the North Star. So that’s actually the purpose. So that’s the quantity of um. Of, of, of the quality, sorry, the other one is the quantity and the other and the spiritual is the quantity quality. Sorry, we’re not native. So, um, so you, you need to know in which direction otherwise your energy goes everywhere.
And as of the age of 30, our energy drops significantly, and most people do not manage their energy. So we strongly believe. If there’s a lot of uh people can gain by just having normal eating habits, uh, sleeping routines, doing the exercise, doing the workouts, um, just to have sufficient energy to do whatever it takes from a leader. And this is so interesting, right, because to your point around whatever it takes from a leader, we know a lot of the stuff that our biggest challenge is in the doing, right?
That knowing, but then doing gap, and then sustaining it. So it sounds to me like At its core, that’s what you are trying to drive, to raise awareness, self-awareness, have us reflect on choices, our purpose, and then move to action. Um, I think, I think that’s what I’m taking away. So what, what would success look like for you to, if, if a leader comes on your programme? Yeah, I mean, uh, the, the, let’s say the comments, some of the comments we received so far is that it was life changing, um, and, and, and, you know, uh, one of our participants said, uh, she would like her boss to come as well.
So I think there’s some. there which is really creating the impact for the individual but also for the, the environment of the leader. So when the leader changes, the, the, the influence, the impact is for the whole organisation, for the direct team but also for the organisation. So success for us is that the leader changes um you know, for the better. We are not trying to teach things. We are really tapping into what the individual already has. We are helping that individual to be more authentic, more self-aware, more self-reflective, and, and, uh, you know, more. really.
Yeah, and I think the impact is bigger because Milgen in the beginning also meant it’s it’s a form of immersive coaching and and you also, I mean, we we’ve coached a lot of people in our lives in the past, what the, the thing I was usually missing was also like, you stop after one hour of coaching and it feels like the next time you’re starting all over again. Yeah, and, and this feels more like you really work with a small group because we don’t go bigger than 6.
So actually, our deal is 4 people. So you really go in depth with people for 5 days in a row. So, so you continue to work. So the whole process is going so much more faster and more impactful, what you can achieve in, in, in this way of working with people. Wonderful. And if people want to get in contact with you too, how do they do that? And I mean, it will obviously be in our post, um, but, but maybe for those who are just listening, how can they get into contact with you?
Uh, the, the most practical way would be to contact us through our LinkedIn, uh, account, uh, for Nicole and Nilun. Uh, we also, they can also connect us, uh, uh, with our company website, either Leadership. It is IDA leadership. Wonderful. And what we will do is we’ll obviously have links to all of these and obviously call you out in our post and on the website. But to both of you, I wish you a lot of success, and maybe what will be interesting is in a couple of months to have a conversation around What are some of the trends?
What are you, what are, I mean, obviously we’ll keep confidentiality, but I’m super curious to hear if there are trends and themes and experiences that we’re all grappling with, or whether it’s so individual, you know, that, that actually, um, There are none of these trends, but the trend maybe is we’re all on a very, very personal journey. So I’d love to welcome you back in a couple of months. That would be really nice. Yeah, I’m sure there are trends, although it’s all personal and individual, I think we can really learn from those insights. Great.
And thank you again so much for having us. No worries. And I wish you both a lot of success and look forward to that follow-up session. Thank you. Thank you.
